““Most”? So out of the 500,000+ active NinjaTrader users…”
“Considering your posts, you are the one getting angry!”
I can’t even figure out who you’re talking too…
It’s obvious that something happened in this last update that drastically broke things for some people who have been using Ninjatrader for many years without problems. What CHANGED in this last update compared to the umpteen other updates where there weren’t such drastic problems?
And from your posts you seem to imply that one needs to be a “software engineer” to use Ninjatrader, which is ridiculous.
Maybe you really are just a bot, @WaleeTheRobot because I can’t figure out who you were talking to in your last 2 of 3 posts.
Looks like you missed the post right before yours that said the person deleted the account and posts. Which now only shows my replies to the deleted posts that no longer exists? It was for someone who has flawless code that has now moved on to a better platform because apparently there is nothing wrong with the users code.
You 100% missed the point on being a software engineer. That would be silly to think that only software engineers can use NinjaTrader. If you actually read and understand the context, people are having issues with NinjaTrader taking a long time to load with their custom indicators when they previously didn’t have that issue. Many were blaming the platform without even wanting to go through a simple process of elimination. At least two have “flawless” code even though they clearly have zero understanding about algorithmic complexity and the difference between load and run time.
I’m adding myself to the list of those forced to downgrade from NT 1.6 . It was slow to load and chart trading was very laggy, unusable during more active periods. My setup is relatively simple and the config is exactly the same as I’ve used in previous versions.
When I see the list of added features, I ask myself:do we need all of them? Many look for me as irrelevant and redundant. Just making the program heavier and requiring more resources.
Did Ninjatrader tested/checked how many additional resources are needed for these added features?
I assume that load and run time changed because of the added features. That might maybe cause problems for traders with a less powerful PC.
For me, the understanding of trading is essential. I have not much knowledge about software, but I beat many IT geniuses in trading performance.
My goal was to become a good trader, not a good programmer. Programming is simply an indispensable tool to achieve my goal. Nothing more. I paid professionals specialized in Ninjatrader to help me, but I never gave them my source.
“So I think that my indicators are fairly good optimized. Surely good enough to avoid lagging or overheating processors.”.
That’s great! The conversation hasn’t been about your trading performance. The issue was you have your custom indicators and seem to think they are optimized, but have no clue if they really are or not. My entire point in this thread has been to use the process of elimination to see if the loading issue some people experience is the platform or their indicators. However, people seem to just blame the platform because of slow load time for their indicators and refuse to believe that their indicators could be the issue with the update just because it worked for previous versions.
Okay, I’ll explain in more detail how my indicators are build.
I ordered a professional programmer, specializing in NT 7/8 for over 10 years, to write a program for an indicator with a single line on a chart. Because I didn’t want to show the mathematical calculations involved, they were replaced by a single line with a simple formula. I later replaced that formula, which I don’t use, with the actual mathematical code. This way, the most important and only part that can generate profits remains secret. The fact that I never had any problems with these indicators, and the confirmation from the low CPU load, indicates that my indicators are sufficiently optimized to work smoothly. Whether my indicators are optimally programmed or not is irrelevant until the day my computer slows down.
Having optimized indicators is 100% relevant. You having low CPU usage simply means that the CPU is not the bottleneck. Like you said, you are not a good programmer… maybe listen to someone who has been doing it for over 20 years.
I’ve been using NT for around 10yrs. From someone with that length of experience, every single time NT releases a new version it causes a raft of problems for many users unrelated to 3rd-party indicators, and a ‘fixed’ V.x.1 is hastily released. Fact.
Consequently I never install a .0 release. Except unusually I did. Unhandled exception in Market Analyzer, slower load, lag. Downgraded.
Later in my spare time, I re-installed 16, duplicated my workspace, removed my 3rd-party indicator (only use one to overcome a Platform feature shortcoming (OR) (very simple & light, low impact in UtilMon & written by the most experienced award-winning Ninjascript programmer in the industry), saved and re-started - same behaviours. Downgraded.
This is par for the course.
Comments such as 500,000+ active users aren’t complaining is flawed thinking Ninja typically use. IMHO it is very likely that a significant number will not yet have upgraded for a variety of reasons (especially those with experience, watching feedback from early adopters whilst awaiting 16.1) and equally likely that a significant number of those that have upgraded are on here reporting problems.
I’d encourage anyone with problems with 16.0 to email in their log and trace files to give Development the info they need. Help them to help us.
That’s amazing that you have a low impact indicator written by the “most experienced award-winning Ninjascript programmer in the industry”… whoever that is. Must be nice! You are still experiencing issues without your indicators. You’ve isolated the issue for you! Which is what I’ve been mentioning many times in this thread and people didn’t want to and just want to blame the platform. I don’t think saying that there are 500,000+ active NinjaTrader users and if it’s a platform issue then all of us will have issues is flawed thinking. It’s a simple fact. If the platform has issues then all of us that upgraded will have issues. That comment was in reference to someone that was using some colorful words in other posts, and who also deleted their comment mentioning that most people are having issues, which is most likely not true considering the amount of active users. Let’s assume only 10% of those active users upgraded… that’s still a lot of users that most likely don’t have any issues relative to the handful of people on the forum. Of course, I’m assuming that only people that posted in the forum have issues, but I can’t imagine all 5,000 people having issues. I upgraded and don’t have any issues. Nobody here truly knows.
The thing is, (which is where we will have to agree to differ) I didn’t ‘need’ to waste my time pointing to indicators being the cause (and neither should anyone else but is what you are advocating). That is a very tired Ninja mantra which has seldom been the case. It’s a matter of history and record that whenever Ninja puts out a Release it causes problems of its own, nothing to do with 3rd-party indicators, and is swiftly followed with a .1 with a myriad of fixes. I didn’t need to waste my time taking off indicators when there is absolutely nothing to suggest they are the problem and everything (history) to suggest they are of Ninja’s making nor do I believe others should waste their time either. Looking from the other end of the telescope, there are several users experiencing problems most likely each using (if at all) different indicators yet your proposition is that each is caused by their uniquely poorly optimised indicator - I.e. there is no common denominator of them using the SAME indicator. All I did by taking mine off is waste my time when there is nothing to suggest it is the problem and everything to suggest it is the changes made by Ninja in .16. It is flawed troubleshooting logic based on the information at hand.
It’s the same flawed thinking Ninja have used for years. It’s easy for them as it costs them nothing to have everyone take off their indicators, but it isn’t where history shows the problem likely originates - without exception. For some reason you are advocating the same without basis. Fine, we’ll agree to differ. Nothing wrong with that. Readers will come to their own decision. To Ninja’s credit, iirc a user has reported they had a reply from Development acknowledging there is a problem and are working to correct it.
The light indicator/award-winning developer I referred to is Harry_Fat_Tails/Lizard Indicators
We’ll just have to wait and see. Either, there will be no .16.1 necessary because the problems reported are caused by individual poorly optimised indicators which users will take off and/or be upgraded by their developers, or we’ll have 16.1 which makes that unnecessary and should have been 16.0 in the first place.
I know where my money is.
Wow! You bought an indicator from an “award winning” NinjaTrader developer. No clue who that person is, I don’t really care and that person could careless about me. Being a software engineer myself and having worked at Fortune 500 companies, I can assure you that even some of the best engineers can write bad code. Yes, I’m advocating for indicators being a “potential” cause. It is a simple way to isolate a potential issue. What is so hard to understand about that? It seems that you are tired of NinjaTrader themselves telling you to remove the indicators and strategies too. It is rational and not flaw thinking. It’s just simple troubleshooting. They have no clue what your indicators or strategies are doing. I find it funny that you seem to imply that nothing is wrong with indicators written by random people here or “award winning” NinjaTrader developers, but point to the actual NinjaTrader engineers as the issue. You know the ones that actually get paid hundreds of thousands a year to write the software you and the third party people are using.
In this thread I’ve used sound reasoning for isolating variables, process of elimination and acknowledging multiple possible causes.
Started with telling people to isolate the issue by removing their indicators or strategies. People are having load time issues based on the complaints here. This usually points to initialization of heavy scripts or configurations.
Mentioned the de facto standard way to describe asymptotic performance or computational complexity of algorithms instead of just assuming the indicators and strategies are optimized.
Explained that updates can alter performance characteristics. This is not unique to NinjaTrader.
Clarified distinctions between load time and run time.
Provided actionable steps for running NinjaTrader without indicators or strategies and reporting the details to support.
I’m literally showing users how to help themselves and the dev team. The more details you can isolate, the faster support can pinpoint what’s happening. What we know is that the problem is not universal, indicating that something (custom indicators, strategies, user environment) the user has is causing the platform to have slow load times for them. What is really tiring, is people, especially if you are developing the indicators and strategies yourself, won’t take the steps to try to isolate the issue and just blame the platform. They can’t help you if you can’t help them. Finally, it’s completely normal for updates to be followed by additional patches and fixes. That’s part of the software development lifecycle and NinjaTrader is no exception.
20+ years experience trading with several other platforms.
I find it a bit disturbing that so much time has been spent arguing over whether or not the issues with the latest release are being caused by third party indicators. Personally, I have a blank workspace which contains nothing but the control center window. That is my default workspace, each and every time I log into NT8.
The first time I logged in after upgrading, it was perfectly obvious to me that load times are at least twice as log as the previous version. Even loading NT8 with my blank workspace took 2 minutes.
So stop all this nonsense about blaming this on 3rd party indicators.
And going forward, I will follow this very helpful advice provided by @brucerobinson:
Blockquote
I’ve been using NT for around 10yrs. From someone with that length of experience, every single time NT releases a new version it causes a raft of problems for many users unrelated to 3rd-party indicators, and a ‘fixed’ V.x.1 is hastily released. Fact.
Consequently I never install a .0 release. Except unusually I did. Unhandled exception in Market Analyzer, slower load, lag. Downgraded.
Great for you! Just because you don’t have issues without any indicators or strategies on a blank default workspace doesn’t make pointing out that isolating the indicators and strategies from others is nonsense. As I pointed out, it’s just one of the variables. Long load times can also depend on the chart type, historical data to load and if tick replay was enabled. Again, what is so hard to understand that someone should try to remove the variables… in this case strategies and indicators, so they can definitely say it’s not the indicators and strategies they have? Nothing nonsense about that. It’s just rational thinking. I myself have over 15 years of experience trading with many different platforms and have over 20 years developing software.
By the way, I have watched your videos in the past and think you provide helpful information.
Wow. How on earth did you miss my main point of my reply. Which is the fact that I CONFIRMED the very same thing you are talking about. Which is that when I eliminated ALL other possible causes (variables), I ALSO found that version 8.1.6 was performing poorly. To the tune of taking twice as along to load a blank workspace.
My other point is that since you and I and many others have already confirmed this has nothing to do with 3rd party indicators, there is no point in discussing that point any further. Version 8.1.6 was broken on arrival and needs to be fixed.
I DIDN’T miss your point. THIRD PARTY indicators and strategies can 100% HAVE AN IMPACT on load time. Just because you have a blank workspace and it’s slower to load for you doesn’t mean that indicators and strategies from OTHERS are nonsense and not to blamed. I DID NOT confirm this has nothing to do with third party indicators. Indicators and strategies are just another variable that may be the issue for some. Including myself, there are people here that uses custom indicators and have NO ISSUES.
So to sum it up for you… I have ZERO ISSUES with custom indicators and strategies. You have loading issues without any custom indicators and strategies. Others may have issues with indicators and strategies, but didn’t isolate it. Others have no issues with custom indicators and strategies. As I have mentioned multiple times, these are just some variables that may cause the issue. Is that hard to understand? Maybe I have my bias because I do not sell or plan on selling any NinjaTrader services.
Dang! I regret ever replying to this topic in the first place. This topic needs a sticky, on the first page at the very top. Informing all users NOT to install 8.1.6 in the first place. And if they have, then advise them to downgrade to previous version immediately. Then wait for the patch to be delivered by NT8 developers. Any more details beside that is a huge waste of time, except for folks who are inclined to be the guinea pig and report issues to NT8 tech support.
